freeflyguy 0 #1 January 22, 2004 I figured I would show all my cutaway from Perris last Sunday. It is a Xaos 98 loaded at about 2.1 It was a normal skydive, stable deployment, but when it began to inflate, it was obviously not happy. Not spinning up, but dancing hard and rotating fast. I tried to counter with rear risers and looked at it. I thought I may have lost a toggle. It was worse than that, so I got rid of it. All was fine then. My conclusion, after looking at the video, frame by frame, and talking to people is that both brakes were unstowed, either on opening (not likely) or, more likely, my packing error. That in itself may have caused it, or the extra brake line may have caused a tension knot that kept the nose closed. If anybody with experience has any other thoughts, I wouldn't mind hearing them. Otherwise, just enjoy watching my wild ride. Oh, and pack carefully. http://www.northwindrigging.com/storage/Cutaway04.wmv Edited to say, I don't know why it doesn't want to be clicky, but just copy and paste into the title bar, and it should work. Now clicky. Thx A. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBester 0 #2 January 22, 2004 For us lazy guys and gals: clicky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites catfishhunter 1 #3 January 22, 2004 Don't have any advice But it sure gave me a rush! Cool video glad ya didn't Die! MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sdctlc 0 #4 January 22, 2004 What altitude did you deply at and what altitude did you end up under reserve?? I had a similar experience on a Batwing years ago when I was in a big hurry and forgot to set brakes, dumb dumb dumb but learned a lesson from that. Canopy was a slow opening one to begin with and I got into the habbit of just watching it. This opening was really slow and I ended up deciding to really pull down on both rear risers before getting ready to chop. The canopy finally decided to open. Not pretty but opened and then I noticed the breaks were not set. After that I would watch the opening to be sure it was not twisting up on me and then give a little tug or pop on both rear risers when I was ready for the canopy to open. That method worked great to speed up the opening when I wanted/needed it to. I would have to say that a considerable level of input was needed though (in comparison) for opening with the breaks not set..... Oh well, live and learn! Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites weegegirl 2 #5 January 22, 2004 damn, that canopy looked PISSED! sweet video and nice transfer! hope you get to the bottom of this. i always wondered what it would look like to deploy with both your breaks unstowed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 56 #6 January 22, 2004 Quotei always wondered what it would look like to deploy with both your breaks unstowed. I made about 100 jumps in a row with the brakes unstowed, no problems... Reason being: it produced slower openings to this briskly opening canopy (very docile and lightly loaded 7-cell). No problems with unstowed brakes though P.S. I used flat packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflyguy 0 #7 January 22, 2004 Hey Scott; It was about 3.5 I dumped it and saddled under a reserve 10 seconds later, so probably around 2.5. I did have my hands on the rears, and maybe could have opened it with a little more work, but it wasn't looking good, and was going fast. I can see how that could work though. I really wasn't so sure what happend until I slowed the video down to frame by frame. Even then, I can't say for sure. So from your post, that would make sense that the brakes weren't properly stowed on mine? ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CornishChris 5 #8 January 23, 2004 Obviously you know as you jump it but it seemed to me that that was not that long to play with it. My canopy takes longer to deploy than the time from pull to chop on that vid. What was it specifically that made you chop it? What is your hard deck? Love the whoop! CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymama 35 #9 January 23, 2004 QuoteObviously you know as you jump it but it seemed to me that that was not that long to play with it. My canopy takes longer to deploy than the time from pull to chop on that vid. What was it specifically that made you chop it? What is your hard deck? Of course I can't speak for James, but I'll tell you from my own experience with 2 cutaways that sometimes you just realize it's not worth fighting it. He was out in Perris at the time, so I'm assuming there wasn't a lot of risk with losing his main with the open areas they have out there. I would have done the same thing. Just because you have a hard deck, it doesn't mean you have to go all the way down to it before you decide to chop.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #10 January 23, 2004 Quote i always wondered what it would look like to deploy with both your breaks unstowed. Did that for a while cos my right brake was firing on every jump. Openings were schweeeeeeet.____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #11 January 23, 2004 I won't secon guess your decision, cause you made it safley to the ground. Did it twist up at any time? I couldn't see any incidence of that on the video. I've made a few jumps on canopies with the brakes unstowed, some good, some wild, but haven't had to chop one yet. I find they usually snivle a long time and often pressurise in an uneven manner.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflyguy 0 #12 January 23, 2004 QuoteObviously you know as you jump it but it seemed to me that that was not that long to play with it. My canopy takes longer to deploy than the time from pull to chop on that vid. What was it specifically that made you chop it? Specifically. In the time it took to decide to chop it, looking at the video, I did two 360's to the right, the nose was coming through the lines, kissing the tail, It was starting to swing me horizontal. Not all the way open, so probably still doing at least 70mph straight down. You'll notice too, when I chopped it, it threw me into another 360 the other direction. That gives an indication of how violent the ride was. I have around 400 jumps on that canopy, and there was no question that it was in a bad way. It wasn't a case of it trying to pressureize, and seeking a heading, like those canopies do. Saying the brakes were unstowed is hindsight. Sitting under it, it seemed more like I had broken a line. I can say now, it may have been caused by an unstowed toggle, or tension knot. But that is 5 days after. As far as hard deck, and playing with it more. To me, Hard deck is for a low speed malfunction. When is the lowest I would chop. In this sit, it was fast and violent enough that it could have in an instant spun up, possibly preventing a cutaway. So, not it wasn't spun up, and yeah, above my "hard deck" But I had better things to do than play with it. As far as the unstowed brake thing. I really meant to ask if anybody had any specific knowledge of that type of canopy, at a similar loading doing something like it. I ask, so that I may have a better knowledge of what it really was. We never stow the brakes on our Icarus tandem canopies. So that in itself isn't the issue. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cesslon 0 #13 January 24, 2004 did this have a RSL ? just a newbie asking here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflyguy 0 #14 January 24, 2004 No RSL. My preference, for the reasons everybody talks about. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
catfishhunter 1 #3 January 22, 2004 Don't have any advice But it sure gave me a rush! Cool video glad ya didn't Die! MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #4 January 22, 2004 What altitude did you deply at and what altitude did you end up under reserve?? I had a similar experience on a Batwing years ago when I was in a big hurry and forgot to set brakes, dumb dumb dumb but learned a lesson from that. Canopy was a slow opening one to begin with and I got into the habbit of just watching it. This opening was really slow and I ended up deciding to really pull down on both rear risers before getting ready to chop. The canopy finally decided to open. Not pretty but opened and then I noticed the breaks were not set. After that I would watch the opening to be sure it was not twisting up on me and then give a little tug or pop on both rear risers when I was ready for the canopy to open. That method worked great to speed up the opening when I wanted/needed it to. I would have to say that a considerable level of input was needed though (in comparison) for opening with the breaks not set..... Oh well, live and learn! Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #5 January 22, 2004 damn, that canopy looked PISSED! sweet video and nice transfer! hope you get to the bottom of this. i always wondered what it would look like to deploy with both your breaks unstowed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 56 #6 January 22, 2004 Quotei always wondered what it would look like to deploy with both your breaks unstowed. I made about 100 jumps in a row with the brakes unstowed, no problems... Reason being: it produced slower openings to this briskly opening canopy (very docile and lightly loaded 7-cell). No problems with unstowed brakes though P.S. I used flat packing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #7 January 22, 2004 Hey Scott; It was about 3.5 I dumped it and saddled under a reserve 10 seconds later, so probably around 2.5. I did have my hands on the rears, and maybe could have opened it with a little more work, but it wasn't looking good, and was going fast. I can see how that could work though. I really wasn't so sure what happend until I slowed the video down to frame by frame. Even then, I can't say for sure. So from your post, that would make sense that the brakes weren't properly stowed on mine? ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #8 January 23, 2004 Obviously you know as you jump it but it seemed to me that that was not that long to play with it. My canopy takes longer to deploy than the time from pull to chop on that vid. What was it specifically that made you chop it? What is your hard deck? Love the whoop! CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #9 January 23, 2004 QuoteObviously you know as you jump it but it seemed to me that that was not that long to play with it. My canopy takes longer to deploy than the time from pull to chop on that vid. What was it specifically that made you chop it? What is your hard deck? Of course I can't speak for James, but I'll tell you from my own experience with 2 cutaways that sometimes you just realize it's not worth fighting it. He was out in Perris at the time, so I'm assuming there wasn't a lot of risk with losing his main with the open areas they have out there. I would have done the same thing. Just because you have a hard deck, it doesn't mean you have to go all the way down to it before you decide to chop.She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #10 January 23, 2004 Quote i always wondered what it would look like to deploy with both your breaks unstowed. Did that for a while cos my right brake was firing on every jump. Openings were schweeeeeeet.____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #11 January 23, 2004 I won't secon guess your decision, cause you made it safley to the ground. Did it twist up at any time? I couldn't see any incidence of that on the video. I've made a few jumps on canopies with the brakes unstowed, some good, some wild, but haven't had to chop one yet. I find they usually snivle a long time and often pressurise in an uneven manner.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #12 January 23, 2004 QuoteObviously you know as you jump it but it seemed to me that that was not that long to play with it. My canopy takes longer to deploy than the time from pull to chop on that vid. What was it specifically that made you chop it? Specifically. In the time it took to decide to chop it, looking at the video, I did two 360's to the right, the nose was coming through the lines, kissing the tail, It was starting to swing me horizontal. Not all the way open, so probably still doing at least 70mph straight down. You'll notice too, when I chopped it, it threw me into another 360 the other direction. That gives an indication of how violent the ride was. I have around 400 jumps on that canopy, and there was no question that it was in a bad way. It wasn't a case of it trying to pressureize, and seeking a heading, like those canopies do. Saying the brakes were unstowed is hindsight. Sitting under it, it seemed more like I had broken a line. I can say now, it may have been caused by an unstowed toggle, or tension knot. But that is 5 days after. As far as hard deck, and playing with it more. To me, Hard deck is for a low speed malfunction. When is the lowest I would chop. In this sit, it was fast and violent enough that it could have in an instant spun up, possibly preventing a cutaway. So, not it wasn't spun up, and yeah, above my "hard deck" But I had better things to do than play with it. As far as the unstowed brake thing. I really meant to ask if anybody had any specific knowledge of that type of canopy, at a similar loading doing something like it. I ask, so that I may have a better knowledge of what it really was. We never stow the brakes on our Icarus tandem canopies. So that in itself isn't the issue. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cesslon 0 #13 January 24, 2004 did this have a RSL ? just a newbie asking here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflyguy 0 #14 January 24, 2004 No RSL. My preference, for the reasons everybody talks about. ---------------------------- bzzzz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
